Monday, April 07, 2008

NAA "GUARDIAN"



NAA GUARDIAN CAN NOT EJECT THE LAST ROUND BECAUSE THERE IS NO EJECTOR.

View Full Version : NAA Guardian .380 Problem


usnavymasterchief
January 29th, 2004, 07:55 AM
My son's NAA Guardian .380 is finicky about what he feeds it. It seems to operate best on Win Silvertip Hollow Points or most brands of ball ammo.
BUT and this is a big BUT, no matter what he feeds it, it will stovepipe the last round in the magazine, every time.
It's his wife's carry piece and he is concerned about it's reliability. I have searched other forums and it seems a lot of other folks experience the same problem.
Any one out there know of a possible fix for this or does it have to make a trip back to the factory?
:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

000Buck
January 29th, 2004, 08:40 AM
I have a Guardian in .32, and it does the same thing(randomly though, not always on the last round). I sent it back to the factory, they did some polishing, spring replacement, etc, and it still does the same thing, except with Silver tip. I gave up and just carry a revolver now.

Byron
January 29th, 2004, 08:57 AM
I encountered the same situation and also found that the magazine release was easy to push on firing dropping it. Thankfully, it was not my pistol. I was shooting ball ammo. Byron

Michael
January 29th, 2004, 09:17 AM
Master Chief,

These little guns operate that way pretty much all the time as they do not have ejectors. When the extractor pulls the fired casing from the chamber, the live round underneath, contained within the magazine, moves upward under pressure from the magazine spring, thus, helping push the fired casing up as the extractor pulls it out. When the last round is fired, there is not a round in the magazine to push against the fired casing, which, commonly, gets stuck in a classic stovepipe malfunction. The condition is inherent to the gun based on its simplicity of design.

I have a Guardian in .32 ACP. Rarely, the last casing will eject, but more commonly it gets caught between the slide breechface and the chamber. I don't worry about it for two reasons. First, I don't expect to be performing speed reloads should I actually need to use it. If things have degraded to the point I'm using this gun, I am at that stage of empty the mag in their ear and run away. Second, I have practiced clearing the stoppage, just as I would with my duty weapon, and have had no problems in ejecting the spent casing, and then switching the empty magazine for a full one. These are nice little guns, and I have had no problem with mine through hundreds of rounds, and four years of carry and practice. I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Michael

usnavymasterchief
January 29th, 2004, 09:27 AM
MICHAEL, Thanks for the very informative answer, I sincerely appreciate it.
His problem is slightly different from what you have experienced, his will not feed the last live cartridge, number six in the magazine.
If it were my gun, I would do as you have done and learn to deal with the problem. On the other hand, it's his wife's carry piece so I think I'll recommend to him to sell or trade the NAA and find a light weight S&W or Taurus .38 SPL revolver for her.
Again I thank you very much for the info.

Matt Sutton
January 29th, 2004, 09:34 AM
From http://www.naaminis.com/naagdfaq.html

I have read/experienced that the case from the last spent round occasionally gets stuck between the slide and the frame. Is this a product 'failure'? Should I be concerned?

No, frankly, not at all. Yes, we are aware of, and understand the causes of, this condition. Yes, it is not an uncommon occurrence. No, we do not believe it represents a performance failure and we do not intend to try to 'correct' the condition.

The design of this pistol does not include an ejector (not to be confused with an extractor), but relies on the following action of a fresh cartridge, as it is moving up the magazine stack and towards the chamber, to push the spent extracted case out of the breech. When the magazine is empty and there is no following cartridge to exert this pressure, the spent case may simply be trapped by the slide returning forward (the slide is not designed to remain open after the last round).

When a full magazine is inserted to replace the empty one, the slide must, in any/every event ('stovepipe' or not) be re-racked to chamber a fresh round. During this process, the spent case simply falls freely out of the breech and the pistol returns to battery - as though the condition had never existed. (Please note that we are not attempting to excuse any stovepipe of a live round. If that condition exists with any of our pistols, we will be happy to rework the gun to eliminate that failure).

ajacobs
January 29th, 2004, 09:36 AM
For what it is worth, NAA will not acept it for waranty work on a last round stove pipe as they consider it part of the design as mentioned above. I have both the .32 and .380. I don't carry a reload when I carry it so it doesn't bother me but if I did, all I would have to do is drop the magazine, insert a new one and rack the slide just like normal and it clears itself. SO for me it is a non issue. While I respect that this is not confidence inspiring. I think that is based on experiences with other handguns and practice would overcome any hesitation about the design. But obviously there is nothing more important than someone's love one and if they want to change obviously the should do it.

HogRider
January 29th, 2004, 11:11 AM
I have a Guardian .380 since last May. Bought it new. During the initial break in period I had all kinds of not feeding and stove piping problems. But it only happened with PMC ammo. After about 50 - 60 rounds those problems went away and since then it has fed Hollow points and FMJs just fine and never has given me the stove piping at the last round problem. I have shot a little over 200 rounds through it and have not had any issues with it since.

usnavymasterchief
January 29th, 2004, 12:03 PM
MATT SUTTON, If you are a company rep for NAA your attitude sucks!!!!
People pay over $400 for a compact pistol they should be able to feel confident that it will work as advertised. Where does it say in your published owner's manual that the last spent casing will probably stovepipe and that's an OK normal condition. You say you are aware of the problem, why don't you try to fix it?
I won't trust an NAA Semi-auto as far as I can throw one and if your attitude is representative of the company you work for then I shall do all I know how to do to get the word out that your product does not live up to it's advertising and that The Guardian series is a poor investment. We bought your product because it was made in the USA, dam shame that off shore products perform better than yours. Even the little guy, Kel-Tec, will at least try to fix their problems but you say you have no intention of trying to fix your guns problems. You don't have to be a gunsmith to figure out that Kel-Tec is a better investment than NAA.
You say you have no intention of trying to correct the problem and that you don't intend to stand behind your product? Well then who do I have to speak to to get my $440 back, certainly not you I hope!
..........................................................................................................................................................
NAA DOES NOT CARE - DON'T YOU GET IT BY NOW
THEY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS INFERIOR DESIGN FOR YEARS.

I SUGGEST YOU BUY RUGER OR KEL-TEC
................................................................................................................

THERE ARE NOT MANY GOOD SMALL POCKET AND RELIABLE 380 ACP PISTOLS OUT THERE, MOST COMPANIES ARE CUTTING EVERY CORNER THEY CAN IN ORDER TO INCREASE THEIR MARGIN OF PROFIT. IN THE LONG RUN THEY LOSE AT YOUR EXPENSE.

IF YOU WANT A DECENT 380 ACP PISTOL - ONE CHOICE IS TO LOOK FOR A MINT CONDITION COLT MUSTANG. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE COLT PONY AND I CONSIDER THE PONY A PIECE OF "JUNK"..........

NO BS HERE, I DO NOT BEAT AROUND THE BUSH.

NAA HAD THEIR CHANCE TO MAKE THEIR GUARDIAN INTO A FIRST CLASS LITTLE PISTOL BUT THEY DID IT THEIR WAY AND NOW KEL-TEC AND ESPECIALLY THE NEW RUGER "LCP" WILL EAT THEIR LUNCH. THEY CAN NOT COMPARE TO RUGER AND RUGER'S RESOURCES.

Pistol
LCP

Caliber:.380 Auto
Barrel Length:2.75"
Grip:Glass-Filled Nylon
Rear Sight:Fixed
Suggested Retail Price: $ 330.00


THE NEW RUGER "LCP" AS WELL AS THE KEL-TEC HAS A BETTER EXTRACTOR AND A BETTER FEED RAMP AND IT HAS AN EJECTOR WHICH THE NAA GUARDIAN DOES NOT. THE RUGER "LCP" AND THE KEL -TEC FIRES FROM A LOCKED BREECH SO YOU WILL FEEL LESS RECOIL. THE NAA GUARDIAN IS A DIRECT BLOWBACK OPERATION.

HAVING A POLYMER FRAME IS GOOD FOR CARRY, DO NOT LET PEOPLE BS YOU. THESE PISTOLS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK FLAWLESSLY AND TO SHOOT A LITTLE AND TO CARRY ALL THE TIME.

THE OLD COLT MUSTANG HAS ALL THE BETTER FEATURES. THE MUSTANG WAS SINGLE ACTION ONLY. IF YOU HAVE A LIGHT WEIGHT MUSTANG DO NOT USE A STEEL GUIDE ROD AS IT WILL CHEW UP YOUR FRAME WITH REPEATED USE.

NAA HAS HAD MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO REVISE AND RENOVATE AND RE-ENGINEER THE "GUARDIAN" BUT THEY CHOSE NOT TO SO I CAN NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THE GREEDY OWNER. HAD HE DONE THE RIGHT THING YEARS AGO AND HE KNEW ABOUT ALL THESE PROBLEMS HE WOULD HAVE HAD A VERY FINE PISTOL TODAY.

THE NEW RUGER "LCP" WILL WHOLESALE FOR ABOUT $220.00 AND YOU JUST CAN NOT BEAT THAT, SO IF YOU JUST ADD $50.00 TO THAT YOU ARE STILL GETTING A GOOD BUY. I WOULD RECOMMEND THE USE OF CORBON POWERBALL WHICH IS A 70 GRAIN BULLET AT 1100 FEET PER SECOND.

ITS ALWAYS EASY FOR OWNERS TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR THE PURCHASES THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE, AS THEY WILL NOT FACE REALITY. "IT IS WHAT IT IS"

NAA Guardian Rifling - where is it ???


NAA Guardian - Breech Face Problem



FROM THE NAA MESSAGE BOARD REGARDING PROBLEMS WITH THE NAA GUARDIAN
*******************************************************************

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Brewfu
Message Board Member
Username: Brewfu

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 08:51 pm:

I finaly found a guardian .380 for sale but it was used,i was tired of looking and this seemed to be what i was looking for,turns out this is a 2005 model.I took the gun to my brothers with some remington 95 gr fmjs and every other round choked almost.the spent caseing alot of times would get slammed back into the barrel,its like it wasnt picking up the new round or the spent casing just wasnt getting pushed out in time does anyone know if there was a problem with the early model .380 guardian? is it just wore out ? or was it just cheap wall mart ammo? anyways im gonna try a few diffrent types of ammo like some 102 gr +p+ and mabee a lighter load like a 90 or 92 gr i am a bit dissapointed at this point in time i can not trust this gun,it might be headed for the trash can and i will get a revolver.I like the gun the trigger pull was np the weight is np the size is perfect but i need it to be reliable any suggestions?? can it be sent back to guardian to be refurbished?
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Darvell
Message Board Member
Username: Darvell

Post Number: 701
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 09:05 pm:

I have a very early Guardian .380. In fact, it's the first .380 to be sold from the factory as a retail sale and has a serial number in the teens. I had a few problems with light strikes on hard-primed ammo, but that was easily fixed with a tighter hammer spring (done by NAA).

It's been very reliable since then. I may take it back to NAA and have some custom work done on it and ask if there are any modifications that they suggest to older .380's, but I don't think there are any significant problems from early models. You might want to ask NAA directly about that, though.

In any case, go ahead and send me yours if it will save it from the trash. ;) It's possible all it needs is a good cleaning and oil job.

Darvell
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Naacustsvc
Moderator
Username: Naacustsvc

Post Number: 61
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 08:31 am:

Send your Guardian back to NAA for evaluation. We will be happy to check over your new purchase for you.
NAA Repairs
Attn: Jennifer
2150 S 950 E
Provo, UT 84606
Include a note with your package that has your name, address, phone number, and the information listed above in your post.
Please call if you have any further questions- 1-800-821-5783.

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Sgtknuckles
Message Board Member
Username: Sgtknuckles

Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 09:40 am:

NAA Return is a Good Idea...<:-)) ~ OR ~ Well This Will Get You On The RIGHT Road To Happyness...<:-)) Its all about Springs (timing) in a Auto... they are ALL working together to get it to work... And "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" in a Automatic... Drag is a No No in a Automatic, that's why DriLube is King on a Self-defense Gun... It can Ride in you Pocket,or sit in a Drawer for a Year, and its ready to Getter-Done... What's our Motto Gunner's ~ "NO GUMMED UP GUNS" Remember~ any Shiny spot (wear) on a Auto's innerds is asking YOU for some LUBE...!!! 1) Get a New Slide Spring from NAA (and put it in the right way~direction) 2) Get a New Mag Spring From NAA (The Top Vary End of the spring faces to the Bullet end)(or a New Mag) 3) Good Quality AMMO (Fiocchi)(Remington is Crap) 4) Cleaning (brush the Chamber with a good Brass Bore Brush~ Straight through & Straight back out~ 5 times should do it~ make sure its clean) 5) Get some Remington DriLube (Teflon)(Its a Cleaner&Lube with Zero Drag~ Flush out the Extractor assembly~ Flush the firing pin hole & assembly from both sides~ now give the Slide Rails a Shot & every other moving internal part like the Hammer ect.ect. and put the gun back together, & wipe the Gun down with a Dry cloth)(Range Duty~ take the can to the range and give the slide a blast every 50 rounds just to be Nice)(DriLube does not attract Dirt, Lint, or Stain) Remington Rem DriLube http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=103872&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10612

Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics Pistol Ammunition 380AP, 380 ACP, Full Metal Jacket, 95 GR, 1010 fps, 50 Rd/bx $12.70
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=89460

.380 ACP (Revolver Snubby): Average Velocity (ft/sec)
Standard Deviation and
Extreme Spreads are listed in ft/sec.

Glaser 70-gr. Safety Slug(Silver) 1299 (ES: 116/SD: 44)
Magtech Guardian Gold +P 85-gr. JHP 1075 (ES: 33/SD: 10)
Federal 90-gr. JHP 1017 (ES: 48, SD: 17)
Federal 90 gr Hydrashok 1036 (ES: 80, SD: 23)
Hornady 90-gr. XTP 933 (ES: 42, SD: 14)
Corbon 90-gr. JHP +P 1083 (ES: 45, SD: 17)
Magtech 95-gr. FMJ 964 (ES: 29, SD: 10)
Remington UMC 95-gr. FMJ 970 (ES: 32, SD: 9)
Remington 102-gr. Golden Saber 928 (ES: 70, SD: 22)
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Phydeaux88
Message Board Member
Username: Phydeaux88

Post Number: 761
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 10:22 am:

Brewfu
SgtKnuckles is right about dry lube.
I prefer Militec
http://www.militec-1.com/
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Sgtknuckles
Message Board Member
Username: Sgtknuckles

Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 02:18 pm:

Phydeaux88,... Your right... I Should have included Militec to... Its a little better for sustained Shooting...<:-)) When I take the extra time, and swab the Slide on My .45 Auto with it a couple of times, and use a hair-dryer to dry it... Its Vary Tenacious Stuff... The Military Loves the Stuff...<:-)) Militec keeps them AR-TYPE M-4 Jamo-Matics the Troops are using in the Sand-Pit, and it Keeps them running...<:-))
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Brewfu
Message Board Member
Username: Brewfu

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 08:56 pm:

Thanks to all that replied to my problem.I went to a gunshop to sign up for the carry permit class and there was a gunsmith shop next door,i thought i would get the feed ramp polished and get some good ammo too.i talked to the gunsmith and showed him my piece,after a short examination he noticed that the tip was chipped off the extractor and noteing that that dosent happen for no reason he also pointed out that the chamber and ramp were very rough in fact looked as though it was blast beaded metal that had never been polished he said it might have gotten missed in the production of the gun.so i left the gun with him he will either send for a new extractor and polish the chamber and feed ramp or send the gun to NAA.i feel better letting a gunsmith handle this than sending the gun myself Problem solved i would like to get some custom sights though,i am paranoid shipping stuff somthing always goes wrong /sigh anyways thanks for the input u guys hopfully i will be happily shooting in a few weeks
************************************************************************************************

Monday, March 24, 2008

KRAMER LEATHER HOLSTERS


KRAMER COMPANY HISTORY

In the spring of 1976, I was introduced, by a mutual friend, to Gene DeSantis of DeSantis Holster & Leather Goods Company. I started working for DeSantis on a part time weekend basis and quickly moved into a full time position. At the time, DeSantis was in a barn in Long Island, New York and I was the only full time employee learning the basics of holster making and design. In 1978 moved to the state of Washington.

For the next five years, holsters were a hobby, not a business. I learned more and more about leather craft and honed my design skills. I made holsters solely for myself and a small group of friends.

In 1983 my Korean born wife Soon Ja, suggested that we turn my hobby into a part time business. KRAMER Handgun Leather was born. At this time we named our business PRO Line Handgun Leather. A trademark dispute with another unrelated company lead to our changing the name to KRAMER several years later.

By 1985 we were enjoying a reasonably successful, albeit very local holster business. We were networking with the local police officers and gaining valuable insights from them about professional carry techniques, and I received notice from the U.S. Postal service that I had been selected for employment from a test I had taken a couple of years earlier and all but forgotten about. We labored over this decision for two weeks and came to the conclusion that the Post Office was the smart way to go with a new baby on the way.

For the next five years I worked full time as a mail carrier, and full time as a holster maker after delivering my route. I would skip lunch and breaks each day and run my mail route down, so that I could take leave without pay at the end of the postal day and go home early to work on holsters. Five years in the Post Office gave me the time to refine my design skills and plot a direction for holster business to head in. Each day I would deliver the mail, keeping just enough presence of mind to make sure that the mail went in the right mail box. My mind was off in space designing a holster that I would make later that night, or dreaming of the day I would get a big break and be written up in a gun magazine.

The big break came in the fall of 1989. A soldier from Fort Lewis called and asked to come over and discuss a holster. I made several holsters for this individual over the next few weeks. Finally, he asked me if he could write an article about our holsters and submit it to a gun magazine. Naturally I said OK, but I was rather skeptical of the chances that an article by an unknown writer would see the light of publication.

Three weeks later Duane Thomas came over to the shop, a big grin on his face, holding a contract for article publication from PETERSEN's HANDGUNS the most prestigious of the handgun magazines! A couple of months later in the December 1989 issue of the magazine, Duane's article was finally in print. One month later I was so flooded with work that I gave notice to the Postal Service and haven't looked back since. This was the start of new careers for both Duane and I. He got out of the Army and is now a prolific, well respected gun writer and author.

Several highly placed individuals at PETERSEN PUBLISHING were quite instrumental in the success of our business. In particular Jan Libourel, editor of HANDGUNS magazine and Geoff Steer, publisher of GUNS & AMMO and all of the other PETERSEN Outdoor Group magazines were extremely helpful by introducing me to major players in the firearms industry and in getting magazine coverage for us. I couldn't begin to thank them enough for the support they gave us in the early days when we were launching the business on a national level, and for their continued support over the years. We have always viewed their support and friendship as a true blessing.

Through media coverage the business grew and we met many professional people who gave us their ideas and input. New designs were born from ideas given to us by members of U.S. NAVY SEAL Teams and other elite covert ops and Special Forces groups. As the business grew we began to hire and train employees. Larger work spaces were needed. What was once a hobby and part time business had become a well known contender within the industry. So much so, that we were recently awarded a registered trademark on the name KRAMER. In order to register a surname, you must prove that it has taken on a secondary meaning. No small task!!

Although we are no longer a "one man shop" in the garage, our basic philosophy remains the same. Soon Ja and I both realize that someone's life may depend upon the products that we sell. We want our holsters to be the finest gun leather available. We want to provide you with a level of customer service that make YOU feel good doing business with our company. We want you to be thoroughly and completely satisfied with your experience at KRAMER Handgun Leather.


Wednesday, March 12, 2008

LIPSEY'S IN BATON ROUGE, LA

NOTICE

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT YOU PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM LIPSEY'S IN BATON ROUGE, LA. - THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY. THEY HAVE BEEN TOO ARROGANT AND SELF RIGHTOUS WITH ME, THERE ARE BETTER CHOICES, THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY. SOME OF THE MUCH BETTER RUGER WHOLESALERS ARE "DAVIDSONS" IN ARIZONA AND "WILLIAMS SHOOTERS SUPPLY" IN ILLINOIS.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008

RIM LOCK EXPLAINED

Clarification on Rim Lock

Back to Kel-Tec stuff

The 32 is a semi-rimed case which means that the rim that the extractor pulls it out of the chamber with is slightly larger in diameter than the rest of the case. Most ammunition for semi auto pistols are not like this (such as the .45 and 9mm). In those there is a recess in the case before the rim, but the rim is the same diameter as the rest of the case so there is no way for them to be rim locked.

In the pic below you can see the 32acp 9mm and .45 laid on a flat surface. The 9mm and .45 lay perfectly flat, but the rim of the 32acp lifts the back of the cartridge slightly.


click to enlarge


In the p-32 (and probably most semi auto's) the ammo is slightly angled nose up in the mag like this:


click to enlarge


This will keep rim lock from occurring if the width of the mag is not much more than the over all width of the ammunition. This is because the angle keeps the top of the rim on the bottom cartridge (A) pulled back and the rim on the bottom of the top cartridge (B) pushed forward like this (exaggerated):


click to enlarge


But if you throw in a shorter over all cartridge (ie hollow points) then they are able to move more forward and back in the mag which could allow the bottom of the top rim to get behind the top of the bottom rim like this (The top round would be rim locked if this were to occur in the mag):


click to enlarge


If this were to happen in a situation when you needed the weapon your best bet is to drop the mag and insert another because you will not clear it by racking the slide....

Some believe that if a rim lock has not occurred when you are done loading the mag it will not occur (That bouncing around in your pocket is not enough to cause rim lock because the mag spring is enough to keep them situated once loaded, although others say they have experienced it on a carefully loaded mag). Loading is when you are pushing on the nose of the top bullet to get the next one in, and that will separate the rim of that one and the one below it, and could allow them to get into a rim lock situation. Like this:


click to enlarge


So they say to make sure each round is pushed all the way back and to load carefully and look for rim lock (look down the front of the mag for one that slide forward more than the rest) after you finish loading, and if you carry with a full mag + 1, chamber the +1 with another mag, not your carry mag then put another back in (because after stripping the first round the lower ones could have moved around and loading after that can cause rim lock).

One fix for this is to take the mag apart and make a plastic spacer to put in the rear of the mag (this also requires shortening the follower to accommodate the spacer) to shorten the inside dimensions of it so that the shorter ammunition can not move enough forward and back to become rim locked. But this makes that mag a HP only mag and will no longer accept FMJ.

Now there is an easy answer if you want to use HP's, the Flyer Wire is a small wire spacer that solves the problem.

My personal opinion is to carry FMJ in my p-32. This is because of the better penetration of the FMJ and it being more likely to get to something vital. That and looking at how many of the HP's that did not expand, or only expanded a little (look here) was not worth the trade off in penetration and reliability of FMJ's to me. That you must decide for yourself. Here are some pro's and Con's of FMJ vs HP's on 32ACP

Saturday, January 19, 2008

Another S&W 642 with a cracked frame



Friday, January 18, 2008

NORTH AMERICAN ARMS

Why 4 MONTHS for Repair?????
NAA Message Board » NAA Products » Why 4 MONTHS for Repair????? « Previous Next »
Author Message
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Onefinger
Message Board Member
Username: Onefinger

Post Number: 61
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 09:18 pm:

On 06 Sep I took my NAA .22 Long Rifle Mini-Revolver to local dealer so it could be shipped for repair. The dealer shipped it to NAA on 07 Sep 07. (Yes, I saw the paperwork.)

It didn't arrive back at the dealer until 07 Jan 08!! The dealer called NAA in Nov and Dec to find out why it was taking so long. According to him they gave no reason and said it would be shipped "shortly".

What's going on with NAA service and repair? Since the dealer and NAA are both in Utah it certainly can't be blamed on long distance shipping.

Does NAA care about customer satisfaction?

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Georgeh
Message Board Member
Username: Georgeh

Post Number: 2856
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 09:30 pm:

Usually there is only a two week turn-around time. NAA customer service is typically outstanding.
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Jpaulghetto
Message Board Member
Username: Jpaulghetto

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 05:33 pm:

Onefinger, the more I delve into this site,the more I recognize it for what it is. Fans and appoligists.
Looks like no one here knows sh** from applebutter.
I think we know which slot Georgeh fits....
Good luck with your mini Onefinger and depend on it for NOTHING..............
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Georgeh
Message Board Member
Username: Georgeh

Post Number: 2863
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 06:41 pm:

Hi Jpaulghetto:

You have posted 8 times. So what are you: a fan or an appoligist?
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Billinpittsburg
Message Board Member
Username: Billinpittsburg

Post Number: 1362
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 10:26 pm:

Jpaulghetto, what exactly are you bringing to the table that you can claim to be qualified to say who knows what?
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Jpaulghetto
Message Board Member
Username: Jpaulghetto

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 08:54 am:

Bill, only a fool would question another mans observations. Seems to be a technical void here.
Bill, I bring question and comment to the table.
I call them as I see them. Feel free to correct me, but I thought this was a FORUM!!!
Georgeh, I am neither. I'm a hard working guy who wants too get what he paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe

Post Number: 165
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:09 am:

You seem to have gotten calling them as you see them confused with being rude, insulting and obnoxious. Being a forum doesnt give you the license to attack everyone you come in contact with. If i was a moderator here you would be waving bye bye.
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Onefinger
Message Board Member
Username: Onefinger

Post Number: 62
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:24 am:

Jpaulghetto, you said, "Good luck with your mini Onefinger and depend on it for NOTHING..."

To get back on topic, perhaps you missed my point. I don't have a problem with NAA products and find them reliable (when I don't use the cheap ammo).

My point was with their customer "dis-service". Has anyone else experienced this kind of delay in getting a simple repair made?

Is my experience just a fluke or is this what we can expect in the future?

I appreciate the feedback on this forum but just wish things would stay on-topic and not get hijacked into name calling and testosterone moments. (That's exactly why I rarely post here any more.)
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Cjw
Message Board Member
Username: Cjw

Post Number: 2860
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:33 am:

I'm with Joe: When board members get to attacking other board members, why don't our moderator give that attacker the heave ho?

In fact, if he will accept the position, how about making Joe our moderator?

If we get to vote, and he wants to do it, I'd vote for Joe.

CJ
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Doc_stadig
Message Board Member
Username: Doc_stadig

Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:45 am:

I had a Rossi .357 out for over 8 months, and all they did was test fire it!
I would also take into consideration the fact that you sent it in during the time that any manufacturer would be building up for Christmas sales, and it could easily have been overlooked. Not making excuses, but there are other manufacturers that consider 4 months an absolute beginning time for any service, and wouldn't even speak to you til 6-8 months have past.

Doc
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Cjw
Message Board Member
Username: Cjw

Post Number: 2864
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:08 pm:

Which is exactly why I get rid of a gun, as in trading it back to the dealer I bought it from, more often than I return one for warranty work.

When I buy a gun I want it to work and I want to use it, that's why I bought it.

I'm a shooter, a user, of guns. Not a collector who, more often than not, don't shoot 'em.

For those who enjoy dealing with warranty work, more power to you. We all have different needs and time lines.

CJ
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Jpaulghetto
Message Board Member
Username: Jpaulghetto

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:22 pm:

Joe, you and Cjw bring a tear to my eye.
I'm sorry you feel I gored your sacred cow.
There is no excuse for a 4 month turn-.around.
Doc feels a need to tell us about his worst experience. Customer Service. I will not be suprised
when I get bounced from here. I attack no one. I respond in kind.
Good day my brothers.
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Heyjoe
Message Board Member
Username: Heyjoe

Post Number: 166
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:48 pm:

I absolutely agree with you that there is no excuse for a 4 month turn around and i also get really annoyed when something doesnt work out of the box. I have had to return a number of products in the last few months and i hate customer service lines. I was referring to some of the insults you threw at some of the people. You seem to know about guns and am sure you could make a contribution to at least my base of knowledge but you defeat your purpose by insulting others you dont agree with or who annoy you.
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Jpaulghetto
Message Board Member
Username: Jpaulghetto

Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 04:56 pm:

Joe, please explain my insults. My observations are just that! Mine! I would never question your qualifications because you dislike the new Chevy or complain about the dealers mechanics. That would make me a fool. Thats what Pittsburg Bill did to me.
Last but not least Joe, I've never met a man, in a half century of tramping across this great country, that used the term ANNOY! That my friend IS an insult.
Good Day Girls
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Mac_muz
Message Board Member
Username: Mac_muz

Post Number: 350
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 05:21 pm:

Well, speaking from the point of view as a biker site mod over years of time, like 7 I guess, allow me to say sometimes new guys get off on the wrong foot.

The "crew" gets rilled, and everyone takes a beating. If the new guys stays, a little time passes, he figures out what is who and who is waht and then everyone else settles down.

More or less everyone super glues their featha's back on and we get more guys with new and different ideas.

J, I stepped on my own tonge my first days too. You see I am not fond of any 9's; and for that I got myself in a heap of whoopass.
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Doc_stadig
Message Board Member
Username: Doc_stadig

Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 06:34 pm:

I wasn't justifying 4 months, I said that I was "not making excuses" I was stating that 4 months wasn't the worst turn-around time. I had not used "my worst" case of warranty work, I merely expressed a time frame of my only gun warranty service, and it was not a NAA gun.
I had a $12,000 medical fiber-optic scope, out for servicing for 14 months, and it was necessary for DIAGNOSING LUNG CANCER!
When you are waiting for something it is never returned soon enough. I was on the phone weekly, trying to get that scope back, as I was working with a loaner, that was no where near the scope mine was. That was definitely ANNOYING. Especially when you are missing treatments that could have extended a person's life, and/or their quality of life.
I have a saying I sometimes use, "if it ain't life or death, it ain't no big deal!"
My daughter used to tell me to take a chill pill,

Take a chill pill

Doc
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Tyr
Message Board Member
Username: Tyr

Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 07:47 pm:

A friend of mine special ordered her BW mini direct from NAA -- and that brand new gun had multiple serious problems (light strike, timing, etc). IIRC, it took over 3 months to get it back . . . but it turned out that the dealer she paid to ship it out delayed doing so for at least 2 weeks. NAA Customer Service responded to all her e-mails and kept her updated as to what was going on and who was working on it. For some reason that particular gun was deemed unfixable and they shipped her a replacement that was guaranteed to work flawlessly . . . and they paid the FFL dealer's fee for the return shipping.

Sorry to hear about the delay in turnaround on your mini. You can e-mail or telephone NAA yourself, rather than have the dealer do it, if you want. What repair work needed to be done?
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Garyl43
Message Board Member
Username: Garyl43

Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 12:32 pm:

Sorry to hear about your experience Onefinger, but I think it is the exception not the rule.

I sent my Black Widow in to have the cylinder pin upgrade on 10/16 and had it back 11/3 with a new mainspring and magnum hand AFT (whatever that is) all FOC.
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Cjw
Message Board Member
Username: Cjw

Post Number: 2869
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 12:57 pm:

Personal attacks are not welcome here.

CJ

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Phydeaux88
Message Board Member
Username: Phydeaux88

Post Number: 723
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 02:33 pm:

Onefinger
The best place to get answers about why your pistol yook so long is to contact NAA. Any other source is pure conjecture.

jpaul
My momma always told me "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. Good advice.
The observation you offered is strictly your opinion. Unless you have credentials that qualify you as an expert in such matters perhaps you should keep such derogatory opinions to yourself.
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Sbyrd68
Message Board Member
Username: Sbyrd68

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:41 am:

Onefinger, sorry to here about your experience. It took over two months to get one mini back and only week and a half to get another. Go figure what the difference is. I will tell you the one that took two months I sent back through my dealer. The quicker one I sent back myself and paid the overnight shipping.

-SB
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Naacustsvc
Moderator
Username: Naacustsvc

Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 09:59 am:

Unfortunately, without real names, I cannot be specific about why a firearm is at NAA for longer than the standard two weeks. If anyone would like to call and provide real names- I'll be happy to assist.
In most cases- firearms are held if there is payment due on the firearm (shipping, reassemble fees, etc.) and it isn't made. I usually send at least one invoice a month until payment is made.
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Naacustsvc
Moderator
Username: Naacustsvc

Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 04:00 pm:

Onefinger- based on info that you provided in original post I was able to locate the firearm in question as I only shipped one firearm to a local dealer (UT) in January.
The firearm was received in Sept 2007. On 9-11-2007 an invoice was sent to the dealer stating that there was payment due for shipping. A 2nd notice was sent 9-18-06 when repairs were completed. A third invoice was sent on 10-19-2007. When the invoice was paid on 01-03-07- I shipped the firearm.
We do apologize for the delay- however- we tried numerous times to contact your dealer for payment.

Monday, December 24, 2007

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